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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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 Posted:
July 25, 2008 - 01:12 AM |
 
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so kamehamehon,
why dont you prove us all right.
tell us what's the average bounce rate, average time on site, average pageview of your site and the sites you develop and then we will see if flash sites are good or not.
The numbers, differently from your "logic", don't lie. |
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adam1987
Squeeker
Joined: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Birmingham, UK
Status: Offline
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July 25, 2008 - 02:04 AM |
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Try Wordpress + Free temple  |
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mikegee
Seeker
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
Posts: 74
Location: GZ
Status: Offline
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July 25, 2008 - 11:27 AM |
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I use Flash in almost all my websites, simple because i love it, and my clients too 
Seriously, as long as the contents are NOT in flash, and all the links are also in HTML (via a sitemap for ex), it won't be a pbm for google to index the website.
| computersolutions wrote: |
Where we do flash sites, we try to break it out to specific pages, rather than one whole takes 2 days to load flash - eg http://www.cabler.com.cn
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With this one, google will read the first page and...never find others. All links are inside the Flash, which is not enough.
Check my web ( www.supadezign.com ) and my portfolio, all menus are in flash, with links at the botton of the pages, so google, yahoo.. can't miss them. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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July 25, 2008 - 11:45 AM |
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"I use Flash in almost all my websites, simple because i love it, and my clients too"
But do your client's clients love it too?
What are the bounce rates with flash and without?
That's the only way to answer the question. Anything else is pure masturbation and speculation. |
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mikegee
Seeker
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
Posts: 74
Location: GZ
Status: Offline
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July 25, 2008 - 12:00 PM |
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i presume so, most of the feedback are usually very good. (from clients and client's clients, as some of them also ask me to do the same)
But once again, i "only" make menus in flash (i always try to convince people to not make a "100% flash website", but i won't refuse if it's what they really want), and the flash files are optimised to be loaded as fast as possible. (it's rarely more than 25kb).
Now, i agree that we can avoid flash to make website, but people also like to have something a bit different, and i mainly use flash for that. |
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leidelaohu
Low Seater
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3157
Status: Offline
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July 25, 2008 - 12:34 PM |
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| mikegee wrote: |
| i presume so, most of the feedback are usually very good. (from clients and client's clients, as some of them also ask me to do the same) |
Well here's a negative feedback for you - get rid of the Flash. Or make it optional. Every single time that I see that "You need to install the newest version of Flash to use our website !" garbage I mentally say "no I don't and you can fry in Hell for the rest of eternity. Bye-bye, flocktards !"
Of course you only get positive feedback. You only hear from the saps that like that crap. The rest of us leave the instant we see the frigging popup. Yeah, maybe it's only 10% ... but is it smart to throw away 10% of your prospective clients right off the bat ? |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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July 25, 2008 - 12:51 PM |
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10%? We are probably talking about 50%. Bouncing rates of most sites are close to that, and I'd like to believe for flash sites is even higher.
But none of the "web specialists" here could say anything about it, mostly because apparently they focus on "a cool website", but do not measure results, which is the certificate of tardness in the industry in general.
Anyway...let's not get too bitter here hc, it's Friday after all. |
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genghis
Raver
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: 421
Status: Offline
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July 25, 2008 - 02:00 PM |
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Ok, let me in here.
Websites done completely in Flash often have a higher bounce rate, namely because of people with either slower connections, impatience, or refusal to update their plugin, have a tendency to leave.
Sites that use Flash intelligently often keep viewers on the page longer, because people do like to look at interesting things.
There is nothing wrong with Flash. I use it on almost every website I have ever made, and most of those sites have a bounce rate of under 25%, average being a nice 19%.
As for building an entire website in Flash... I've only done it a few times, and they were for VERY high end projects (think movies), where there was tons of money for a huge ad campaign and payments made to major search engines for high listings. It's a bad idea to do a whole site in Flash, namely because search engines currently index only static content, so for a small business without tons of marketing capitol, it doesn't make sense. Oh, and speaking of bounce rates. If you have a one page website that has a Flash movie in it, and that movie contains a full site with nav and pages... Guess what? A visitor has only visited one page of the site, so when they leave, it's considered a bounce.
| Quote: |
| But none of the "web specialists" here could say anything about it, mostly because apparently they focus on "a cool website", but do not measure results, which is the certificate of tardness in the industry in general. |
Hehehehehe. Yeah, a lot of people who make websites are very talented designers. There are a lot of really nice looking sites I have seen that are the most horribly written code ever. LOL. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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July 25, 2008 - 11:25 PM |
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^Fugg! Finally a designer that appears to know about what exactly the purpose of a website is.
Do you do freelance or what's the deal?
I have several clients that were convinced about why the fancy little page with crappy content is not worth a shite that need to get sites done. My company does not have the desire or capability to serve this market.
If interested, PM. |
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Ah Beng
Reacher
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Shanghai Paradise
Status: Offline
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July 26, 2008 - 12:34 AM |
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^Taxi drivers need your bendover service at night, are you sure you're up for it? |
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kamehamehon
Barker
Joined: July 05, 2006
Posts: 196
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2008 - 08:32 PM |
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| computersolutions wrote: |
| Yeah, but some of your stuff sits on my servers Mr Jimmy, so don't get too cocky there... |
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lindaus
Lurker
Joined: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 24
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2008 - 09:55 PM |
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My website has a slideshow on every page except my blog. Bounce rate is around 60%, meaning most people visit one or two pages at a time. Return rate averages 15-20%. Google ranking is 4/10.
Depending on the purpose of the website, using flash can add value to the content. For sites like mine, words are cheap. Pictures speak a thousand words.
I do websites for fun. I use Dreamweaver CS. Hope you enjoy my slideshows.
Linda |
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kamehamehon
Barker
Joined: July 05, 2006
Posts: 196
Status: Offline
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July 29, 2008 - 02:26 PM |
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suggestion : get rid of dreamweaver |
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leidelaohu
Low Seater
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3157
Status: Offline
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July 29, 2008 - 03:03 PM |
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kamehamehon
Barker
Joined: July 05, 2006
Posts: 196
Status: Offline
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July 30, 2008 - 03:00 PM |
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suggestion #3 : using flash only on necessary way ~~ |
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Renovator
Reacher
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 342
Location: Century Park & MA,USA
Status: Offline
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July 30, 2008 - 03:37 PM |
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Not everybody has high speed computers and/or high speed internet access which makes ecommerce websites and flash a deadly combination. I believe that is why virtually no ecommerce site beyond a mom and pop shop will use flash. As well as other problems mentioned earlier in thread.
Designers and ecommerce operators are often at odds over this because the designer is mainly concerned about what looks good in their portfolio and may win some award. An ecommerce site is only interested in Sales and return on investment.
My company owns and operates some 13 ecommerce websites and we tested flash as it looked pretty cool but when we ran A/B tests the flash results were so pitiful that the flash was all removed after a few weeks and sales soared. Give the customer more than 10 seconds to load the page and most of the time customer is off to another site.
If OP is looking for ecommerce anytime in future, keep it simple and stay away from flash. |
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MarkDow
Barker
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 140
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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July 30, 2008 - 04:04 PM |
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hc - you are definitely more knowledgeable than me on this kind of stuff but settle back the tone in how you questions people...you are just very rude and quitew frankly if you talked to me like that in my face, I would kick your ass! Mark Dow |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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July 30, 2008 - 04:35 PM |
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^ I dont really give a shiat about what you think.
Another designer with a glass self-esteem?
Exactly what we need.
Just tired of people wasting my time, like our boy kamehamon here.
If you don't like it, it's your fugging problem. Just dont waste my time.
Further, if you are not knowledgeable, then go play somewhere else.
Have a nice life. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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July 30, 2008 - 04:37 PM |
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| Renovator wrote: |
Not everybody has high speed computers and/or high speed internet access which makes ecommerce websites and flash a deadly combination. I believe that is why virtually no ecommerce site beyond a mom and pop shop will use flash. As well as other problems mentioned earlier in thread.
Designers and ecommerce operators are often at odds over this because the designer is mainly concerned about what looks good in their portfolio and may win some award. An ecommerce site is only interested in Sales and return on investment.
My company owns and operates some 13 ecommerce websites and we tested flash as it looked pretty cool but when we ran A/B tests the flash results were so pitiful that the flash was all removed after a few weeks and sales soared. Give the customer more than 10 seconds to load the page and most of the time customer is off to another site.
If OP is looking for ecommerce anytime in future, keep it simple and stay away from flash. |
FUGG!!!!
One of the first guys in town that knows what a split test is!!!
Welcome.
We DO have knowledgeable people here after all... |
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MarkDow
Barker
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 140
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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July 31, 2008 - 12:22 AM |
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HA - You are the expert right....hahaha, gotta be a rude prick to get your point across....good luck and fyi - we could care less about your negative attitude, enjoy it or go home! |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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July 31, 2008 - 01:05 AM |
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Well in case you havent noticed several posters agreed with my initial argument.
Negative attitude? Where is that? By calling the "designer" above that has a crappy flash site I am "negative"?
Notice I didn't say I am an expert, I just used your "you are definitely more knowledgeable than me on this kind of stuff" dikwad.
Now go play on the subway tracks.
Bye. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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Aug 02, 2008 - 09:34 PM |
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Okay jimmygraphic, I was talking (actually fighting) to MarkDow via PM and I just realized I was a bit harsh with both of you.
Although I disagree with your take on flash, I think I should have communicated it differently.
So, good luck to you and your business.
This being said, I think that 500% more important than flash or no flash is the headline and the benefit you promise to someone using a website. This, together with a sharp USP, a lead capture mechanism backed up by an autoresponder, a good system to split test landing pages and a good design should transform any website from a mere brochure into a sales support system.
And therein lies the problem of most design people: they completely ignore the sales process of a company and hence obliterate any chance of a website becoming a marketing on autopilot sales machine.
I wrote a bit on the topic and my customers like the info they got. If anyone wants a report on the topic, pm me.
hc. |
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kamehamehon
Barker
Joined: July 05, 2006
Posts: 196
Status: Offline
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Aug 02, 2008 - 10:37 PM |
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hc
use flash on a necessary way -that is all i want to say
and my friend Markdow: dont need to reply him or pm anymore no matter what happens . hc is not a moderate guy to talk with anything
no matter what happens , i wont reply you anymore |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4352
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Aug 02, 2008 - 10:51 PM |
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Well, that's your choice
For everyone else: go get cheap templates at www.templatemonster.com. |
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leidelaohu
Low Seater
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3157
Status: Offline
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Aug 03, 2008 - 11:37 AM |
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| kamehamehon wrote: |
| use flash on a necessary way -that is all i want to say |
Let's put it this way: since January we have spent around $450,000 in China and have another $800,000 pending. (Yes, dinky little office but it keeps us off the streets.)
We do a lot of searching on the web.
When I get that "You need to download the latest Flash" popup I leave. Instantly.
Do whatever you like with that information. |
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